M14 Forum

yellowthunder

I need some guidance on this, Where can I find a good primer for good Marksmanship? Right now I’m concentrating on bench shooting with just a bipod. I have very little experience with shooting long rifle and I’ve shot just over 1000 rounds now. I don’t know anyone that can coach me here that can accommodate my schedule so I’m by myself on this one. I wish there was a project appleseed here on this island.

So at the range today, I practiced dryshooting. I’ll aim at the target, close my eyes for a few seconds and open them, to adjust my position as required. Concentrate on my breathing pattern and rhythm. Mindful of my trigger finger position. Try to maintain a consistent proper cheek weld, and try my best to “Press” the trigger without jerking.

After all this effort right when the rifle goes off I have a good feeling about POI to bullseye then to find out when my vision focuses that I was way off on the first shot! Then the Second! (I’ll be 4” off bullseye) Then the Third! (I’ll be 4” off bullseye again) I tell ya I don’t understand and it’s really frustrating for me sometimes. (When I say way off, I mean off of a 9” target @ 100 yards for the first shot)

But then sometimes I get decent groups every once in a while.



I really think consistency is key here, especially cheekweld and trigger pull. What is considered a decent grouping for an amateur shooter?

I've checked my scope (9X) if it was loose but it was solid (Bit me one time) and I don't think the quality of the ammo is the issue here either.



At the end of the day my trigger finger felt numb after shooting 120 rounds.

Maybe my video can reveal some obvious mistakes or bad habits. I know I already compromised my shooting position for the camera, what I really wanted to show was my trigger pull here. Next time I’ll have to take a better picture. I would like to try some stuff out before I leave for Kuwait though so I’ll have to pay a visit to the range tomorrow.

Thanks everyone!

RAMMAC

Double check the two bolts on the stock that pull the lugs tight. I do better when the lugs are torqued evenly.

RAMMAC

If you have the barrel tensioner then try about a three quarter turn from neutral position and see if that helps.

Also, my groups improve if I put something under the bipod to keep the rifle from bouncing off of the hard bench. I use a piece of old carpet usually but I've also used sand bags.

Try to ensure that the reticle is vertical & horizontal, canting the rifle will move the impacts to one side and low of where you intended for them to hit.

Just before you squeeze off the shot focus on the center of the reticle and not the target, just like focusing on the front sight post with irons.

yellowthunder

Thanks Rammac, I'm breaking out the torque wrench right now, I'll also play around with the barrel tensioner a bit too. I was wondering If I should get a bubble level that attaches to the rifle to make sure if it's level.

nf1e@snet.net

I have the same setup Dom. I used a level on the scope for years. Ammo is probably the most important thing after your technique. You are deffinately on the right track. Good shooting and thanks for the video.
Art

Rojkoh

Simple issue here, Call Brownells at: 1-800-741-0015 and order a catalog. There's quite a few primers on this one. Next go to Champion's Choice Shooting accessories in Tenn. Get yourself a starter shooting jacket ($65 if memory serves), a Leather shooting glove, a Mid Thomkin's cheater sling (I"ve had one since 75) and a prone pad. EVERY and I mean EVERY time I head to the range, this stuff goes with on top of my shooting stool which has my score book, notes, the classic USMC sniper guide for the 14, etc). If you remind me, I'll dig mine out and look it up. I know some of the top shooters have either written books or a primer of sorts.

Aside from that, roughly in mid 2012 there'll be a book coming called "M14 Unclassified"... it will also have a primer about shooting skill sets. Tonight was working on 2 chapters, stock refurbishing and reloading for the M14 type rifle. I've handloaded since 1975 for mine and several others since I primarily got my advise from the lead engineer at TRW on the 14 production run and team shooters as I worked up the loads. Everytime I completely rebuilt a rifle, I worked up a load for it to make sure of the rifles accuracy before it was delivered. Starting in roughly June, I'll have rebuilt my work bench and I'll be back at it again. I expect at least one M1A to cross the top of it as soon as I move (I'm headed back east, I'm a Californian and I hate California these days).

More over secure your scope, make sure it's level, adjust the Paralax out and zero it starting at 100 yards, move out step back step by step all the way. Be sure to read the wind everytime you go out the range, it counts.

The book will cover an awful lot about taking a standard grade M1A or issue M14 and turning it into a 1000 rifle. I know I've tuned, rebuilt one hell of a lot of M1As and a good run of M14s while I had a class III ticket. Let me give you a hint, reloading is currently over 100 pages and I am nowhere near done. I need to get a certain type of brass and work up a load equivalent to the old M118 White Box. Best .308 ammo ever made. Current "Brown Box" is a joke by comparison. But that's what they issue to the DMR's.

*IF* you want, I do pop in here about once a week when I stake a break and try to answer some questions. My time with the M14? Started in 1969 with an NM rifle and an M14E2 with the switch. If you look closely at my profile picture, that was me testing the M249 in 1980... I do not care for .223 "carbines". I know what's wrong with them, not to mention all the PR put forth to "rationalize" them. But a friend of mine did get get an M16 to shoot out to 600 yards accurately... don't ask me about this, I just don't have the time to explain how he did it, including the fact that he had to make his own bullets.

AS always, I digress.... live learn and shoot better! It's really more enjoyable as you realize you're building one heck of a skill set.

PS, go online and try to find a target with no bullseye, but 4 little square boxes on it. I always used this one when zero'ing the rifle and later to shoot groups. The squares let me align the scope for a truer hold for accuracy.

MFD

In watching your video, you will see that the rifle w/ bipod obviously slides on the bench upon recoil, but it does not always return to the same spot after the shot. That is a vairable which can cause different impact of bullet on target. Suggest you take gun off the bipod, replace support with good bag and place your left hand under the rifle to further reduce any "bounce" of forearm when firing. Your left hand is not gripping the forearm, but just serving as further support. Some bench shooters will use baby powder on the forward bag(no hand underneath) to lessen friction between forearm and bag so the rifle will return to battery after recoil and hopefully in the same spot. Also notice after firing you are adjusting the rifle from right to left, rolling it back to center line, and would guess that is also due to the bounce from the bipod set up. In short, rifle is in different position/placement after each shot which will cause different impact. Might suggest you take a "firm" grip, not white knuckle, but firm w/ firing hand and just for experiment purposes, place trigger finger w/ first joint seam of finger on right edge of trigger itself. Nothing magic about that, but only purpose is to establish a reference point so that you place your trigger finger back in the same place each time, consistancy, consistancy!! If you find that is not comfortable for you, go back to the finger pad, but important that you place in same spot each shot, Trigger pull may well be some of the spread of shots you are seeing?? Realize your rifle is not intended for bench shooting, but if trying to see just how well you and the rifle will shoot get off the bipod and see what happens. When making changes in techniqes, etc., make only one at a time and check results. Bipods certainly have their place, but not a fan of them for checking for best accuracy of rifle/shooter. Your bipod set up performance vs bag perfomance can be noted and predictable for future firings. Just some suggestions and hope it works out well for you.

Rojkoh

*IF* you're talking about the nuts that hold the liner in place on the M14 stock, there is a tool for tighten and untightening it. Brownells has them and they're about 10 bucks. It's part #093-223-040.

I've had one of these for years.. but never used it. If I feel it's necessarily I relieve the area by the stock liner and glass bed it (ACRAGLAS or ACRABED and frankly as much as I've used ACRAGLAS over the years on M1As (14s had to be done MilSpec with Devcon), always used ACRAGLAS, I am however getting really comfortable with "STEELBED"... Since I do occasionally mentioning the book I'm writing, it's all in there including how to do what WITH PICTURES, not illustrations. Just call 1-800-741-0015 and order a catalog or go online to Brownells.com.... Best site in the industry and very well done. Pay close attention to the Sinclair tab... Finest in accuracy shooting products. I use Forster trimmers, Forster Co-Ax press and Case and Cartridge Inspector, etc etc etc.. to make sure my ammo is the best it can be. Yep, I've been shooting PALMA since 1976... Out here, that's 1000 yards. I started by shooting a Ballance M1A with the USGI NM barrel.. I just figured out a lot of tricks that work better then the USMTU guide. Oh, my current set of M14/M1A tools all came from Brownells, including the barrel vise and action wrench. In 1976 I had to make mine since I couldn't find a complete Armorer tool set. First barrel I changed was on mine. Didn't have to lap the bolt/barrel. I did have to take the barrel back to the milling machine 3 times before it went right into battery perfectly. Elmer sure built one fine rifle. I miss him.

Two tricks to using bedding compound:

Do NOT whip it instead of just mixing it.. this creates bubbles and you don't want that.

If it's "cool" or downright cold, warm some water up and ease the bedding compound in it's container into the warm water. Once the compound is warmed up, you shouldn't see any crystalization or in the case of ACRABED, you'll find sort of "lumpy" things in it... it's telling you it's to cold and you really want it to flow properly. Oh, if you buy my favorite (ACRAGLAS), be sure to go to your local vets and buy or ask for some 3cc syringes without the needles.. Mix it according to the instructions... I personally add a little extra flux and be sure to use either clay or Play Dow to damn up areas you don't want the bedding compound to flow into... you'll see this in detail in the book.

nf1e@snet.net

He is using a JAE stock. Bedding is old school. Don't need it with new improved gear.

Dave P

1) get rid of bipod
2) get sand bags for front and rear.
3) be sure your scope is properly adjusted for parallax errors
4) more practice


With all the other people at that range, you can't find anyone who is an accomplished shooter, to give you some tips???

yellowthunder

Thanks for the advice everyone! I'm going to try out the sandbags, sitting position, and trigger placement first. I usually sit pretty much side saddle on the seat there, bladed to the target with my left hand on my bicep supporting the bottom of the butt of the stock with the thumb. My trigger finger makes contact at the pad and close to the tip of my finger. I was always told that the tip/pad of the finger should make contact with the trigger because if the finger made contact at the crease I would make the shooter tend to "Pull" to their shots to the left.

At the range I keep to myself. It's my quiet time and I really don't know anyone there or their qualifications. I like to just hear the sound of my rifle. I don't even know why I purchased the sound amplified hearing protection. I usually leave it off ha ha ha.

Ok time to hit the range, next time I get a chance...

Lennyo3034

Here's what I do every once in a while to verify my technique:

Have someone else load the magazine with mixed live rounds and snap caps. You won't know if the rifle will go off or not when pulling the trigger. This is similar to dry firing, however when dry firing, you inwardly know it won't go off and are therefore less likely to jerk the trigger.

If you are finding that you are jerking the trigger (ie. pulling the rifle off target with a snap cap), don't even bother load mags with only live rounds, continue this dry fire practice.

This helped me with the rifle a bit, but it's really handy with handguns.

82nd ABN

Grab one of lesters if he has one a rack grade and start competing. Just a suggestion the SAFS course might have something to it as well. I'm going to my first one 4/21-22. To bad because that same weekend is the first Appleseed, never went to one always wanted to check it out. Not sure if these sugfestiont have what you are looking for as I said I have not gone to either of them yet. Stay safe on your rotation in Kuwait and keep in touch. See you on the flipside

thefishguy77

I have done the mixed snap caps and it was humbling at first. What I have been working on now is changing my breathing. I was always told to hold about a half breath. But when a talented friend watched me do this he asked how I knew that I was at the same spot every time with my breath. He suggested that I let all my breath out then squeeze. I have been doing this for some time at home with snap caps and recently went to the range and was very surprised. There was a big reduction in fliers. only one out of 150 rds. normally I get 1-3 for every 50 rounds or so. I will be going back to verify but
biggest one time modification i have ever done. just hope it wasn't dumb luck.

hth

DogT

Practice, practice, practice. This is my first post here but I saw this thread and had to respond. I shot HP for several years with a club Garand and shot in the mid 300's. Got a M1A1 custom built and immediately went to the high 400's and shot for another 8 years or so. Like others have said, get rid of the bipod. Shoot off sandbags or better yet prone with the sling tight. Sitting is not bad too. You need to have confidence in the rifle that it will shoot and the only way you can get that is with reproduced tight patterns. Fliers are a no-no. They shouldn't exist. If you shoot enough, you will be able to see where the bullet is going to land on the target before it hits. Reloading your own is good too, but that will only tighten up your group. Unless your rifle shoots less than 2 moa with any ammo, it isn't right. Mine (Clint Fowler double lug M1A McMillian stainless heavy barrel) shoots sub moa at 200 yds all day with almost any ammo, but likes Lake City brass, sierra HP match 168 and 41.5g of IMR4895. You will have to experiment. I was really surprised when I went from the Garand to the custom M1A, I immediately started getting feed back from the rifle as to what I was doing. Repetition is your friend too, do everything the same way every time and I mean everything. Get into a routine and stick with it, but it helps to have a coach to see what you are doing wrong to start with. Join a spring HP club and they usually have coaches that can really help you to start. Next thing is offhand, get used to it, you can shoot in the 90% if you put your mind to it and your eyes are good. Get rid of the scope the match peep sight is just as good.

Dog