M14 Forum

jmoore · January 31st, 2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokyBaer

Gonna trim out at the yellow paint... Like a combo of both styles.
A little off the left and a LOT off the right.
Hope it goes as well as ya'lls did.

You should be able to get into the high 300 grain range without a lot of consternation. Best to date with the offset web seems to be 365gn.

The left side is fine.:

Yup, that works.

But the right hand side near the hook needs to be less aggressive. Stay away from the center split between the hooks or go crazy and remove the RH hook altogether. On my ShootingSight Art7 Mk.I prototype the rear sear engagement has been relieved enough to not make contact with the trigger's rear hook to minimize breakage potential. Art's new hammers will have the improvement incorporated (Mod.1?).

Like this

Not like this!

Otherwise, you risk something like so:

Nez's hammer- still working, but...

ETA: It seems that the current version of my mods to art7's hammer have not been documented! Oops...Will try and rectify that directly.

art7 · January 31st, 2012, 10:11 PM

What he said.

The right hook has the potential to become very weak if you take off too much material, so be careful.

SmokyBaer · February 1st, 2012, 05:34 AM

Thanks for the heads up!!
Will stop short of the slot between the hooks.

jmoore · February 1st, 2012, 09:33 AM

Delayed update of Art7's prototype hammer modifications.

Getting close to being done with this part. Would like to try again on one of the improved production versions.

365 grains, IIRC.

RH hook is mostly for emergengy backup any more- the front RH hook engages, but the rear does not. Could see it flex! So stoned the rear surface until it no longer made contact.

jmoore · February 20th, 2012, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokyBaer

You guys have really peaked my interest on lightening my hammer. Bought a couple extra and gonna carve mine out like the offset style. Gonna shoot for 350 range just to shave at least 3ms... more hopefully. Never thought about the hammer fall time but have to admit it doesn't take much time for a heartbeat or breath to bump an inch or two off at 200 yards. Great thread btw.

Any progress? Or new insights?

The most troublesome area for me to date is the hammer nose area.

Just can't seem to finalize a procedure for that area.

Currently have three different approaches:

My favorite. But hard to do! (As witnessed by the inadvertent hole in the curved face.)

Another "pieced together" concept for the offset type hammer:

Obviously done in stages. But fairly good layout that adds little weight.

And now a simplified semi-combo of the two which is easy to mill with only a couple of set-ups and cutter changes:

Never mind the divot at the bottom of the photo. Just a touch off point. The lightening cuts will be taken deeper on this side anyway.

Actually, I don't see a real need for the overtravel stop with a sufficiently lightened hammer. The HOI has been doing fine without one for a while. But the buttressing effect of the extension to the stop from the hammer nose seems to be good enough excuse for some small remaining stop face.

Other developments have been in the works, but they'll be kept under wraps for now...

Oh, did get to shoot the old "Favorite" at 600yds last week. Fairly "switchy" (flags at 300 were pointed opposite directions most of the time) wind. But results were pretty good. Couldn't keep up with the guy shooting the .50, but it compared not too poorly to the two .338 Lapua shooters. Esp. considering the rifle isn't bedded, lugged, or even heavy barreled!

jmoore · February 27th, 2012, 06:34 AM

It's not going to be another "Hammer of Insanity" this time. More of a durability model that combines features of the old Mk.I and Bamban's Mk.II Mod.1.
After much deliberation and dithering, it was decided to call it the Mk.I Mod.2. (At least as long as it retains the rear flange!)

The main difference from my other hammers is the web is now offset. The pocket is much deeper overall on the right hand side than the left. In fact, it'll likely grow 0.010" deeper today to make the web 0.040" thick.

420 grains after the weekend's chip fest. Not even close to being done, so...

ETA: 0.010" was worth 12 1/2 grains.

The lower rear portion of the pad may remain, as I found it possible to try to assemble the hammer with the safety under the rear shelf. Only when the safety is pushed "on" before assembly. But if forced, it's conceivable that the safety could be broken whilst trying to get the hammer in.
On a target rifle, well, "too bad"! But IF this or a similar hammer ever gets into production, a broken safety would be considered a design flaw, even if it takes a ham-fisted lout to do it...

SmokyBaer · March 6th, 2012, 09:09 AM

No where near the complexity of your advanced carving techniques BUT a good start on three hammers. Thanks for the heads up on the hooks... left a good bit to keep them strong. Have not weighed them yet. They do feel a lot lighter though. Check'em out...

jmoore · March 9th, 2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokyBaer

No where near the complexity of your advanced carving techniques BUT a good start on three hammers. Thanks for the heads up on the hooks... left a good bit to keep them strong. Have not weighed them yet. They do feel a lot lighter though. Check'em out...

Can we guess? Ahhhuuuummmm.....average as shown...510 grains. (High, low, close?)

SmokyBaer · March 11th, 2012, 07:34 AM

Still have not weighed them yet. Hope they weigh less than that because i definitely
want to be less than 400. Goal is to reduce lock time by at least a 1/3. Ya'know?

jmoore · March 11th, 2012, 09:39 PM

No worries. My first hammer took probably near on two months to get in the high 400 grain range.

The worst thing about the lightweight hammers is that once you've used them a bit, the regular GI hammers feel like big, old, slow sledgehammers.

I've been doing some more developmental work, but it's based on some of art7's ideas, so I don't want to steal his thunder. Hopefully his first run of production hammers will be out soon.

jmoore · March 27th, 2012, 02:14 AM

Art sent me numbers on one of his hammers that I modified further.

Get this: 4.5 milliseconds!

And it still is safe and with both hooks. Not crazy light like the "Hammer Of Insanity", but it incorporates some geometry mods that Art brainstormed.

Can't reveal all of Art's magic, but neither could I keep that news under my hat any longer!

art7 · March 27th, 2012, 05:41 AM

Just to summarize progress since this thread started:

8.3milliseconds - Stock hammer
6.7ms - ShootingSight Skeletonized SpeedHammer
6.2ms - JMoore skeletonized
6.0ms - BENCHMARK - Mil-Spec AR trigger
5.5ms - ShootingSight skeletonized and modified geometry
5.0ms - BENCHMARK - Rock River NM AR trigger
4.5ms - JMoore skeletonized and modified geometry
4.0ms - BENCHMARK - X-Treme NM AR trigger - the fastest AR trigger on the market.

Today, I see a path to commercialize a version that is between 5 and 5.5ms. Getting down to 4.5ms will require a HUGE step in additional CNC programming cost, machining cost, and/or mold cost for a cast version, so no telling how soon, or if ever this would get to market.

Art

LausDeo · March 27th, 2012, 01:05 PM

Wow, great work guys!

Mocos · April 4th, 2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmoore

Well, they sell speed hammers for 10/22, M16, AR15, 1911, 1100, S&W revolvers, Ruger Blackhawks, Ruger .22 pistols, Colt SAA, CZ75, and stikers for Remington 700s, Glocks, and that's just off the top of my head.

I think not only High power guys, but DMR operators, and 3 gunners who shoot from less than stable postitions can all benefit. The guys who don't shoot past 200 yards or get away from supported positions probably don't really need it, unless their rifle is truly sub-MOA. Then every little bit helps.

I really have found the fast hammer good for standing. Yesterday's outing was remarkable for how well I could call my shots- even the bad ones.

In reality...the speed/light hammer benefits everybody from the rank beginner to the master triggerman....easier to learn, control...etc

cobrafreak · April 4th, 2012, 08:10 PM

after reading a dozen pages or so of this thread I went in the garage and lightened my m14 supermatch hammer and to be honest it dramatically increased the accuracy. I'm going to do it to my socom soon. Thanks guys.