M14 Forum


Reloading for gas guns

This is a discussion on Reloading for gas guns within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Im sure this has been touched on before, just thought id share. Makes me really really question weather or not I want to reload anymore ...


Go Back   M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Accuracy


Like Tree10Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Moderator Tools Display Modes

Old August 7th, 2011, 11:20 AM   #1
Lifer
 
Whatsinaname181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Terra Firma
Posts: 2,987
Reloading for gas guns

Im sure this has been touched on before, just thought id share. Makes me really really question weather or not I want to reload anymore for my AR15 (ive probably been lucky thus far).


http://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/AR...ngThoughts.htm


Very good read.


K.

Whatsinaname181 is offline  
Remove Ads
Old August 7th, 2011, 02:24 PM   #2
Rest in Peace
 
TexIndian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,063
I'd have to take mild issue with some of the things in the linked remarks. Whenever you're making little bombs to set off right next to your face, you obviously need to pay attention. But as pointed out in the articles, it is the free-floating firing pin and resulting out-of-battery ignitions that are the biggest risk in the service rifles, and with the exception of improperly-seated or overly-sensitive primers, those risks are the same with factory ammo as with reloads.

Okay, running an over-sized round into a service rifle might be risking an out-of-battery ignition, but no case run through a standard sizing die and trimmed will fit that description. Failing to resize and trim your brass isn't a risk of reloading; that's evolution in action.

All the risks McKee frets over concerning loading at the lands would rarely even apply to service rifles. Those stretched-out cartridges won't fit in any magazine out there, auto or bolt gun. Those are rounds intended to be hand-fed and are rarely used in service rifles, excepting only certain types of competition. The risks involved in that type of ammo would hold equally true for bolt guns.

TexIndian is offline  
Old August 7th, 2011, 02:35 PM   #3
Squad Leader
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: OR
Posts: 269
I try to be careful and just accept the risk...I don't think it's much higher than using factory ammo (and some of the surplus stuff people stuff into their guns would really scare me!). I sure I'm at more risk getting run over on the drive out to the range than I am my ammo doing me in.

leonardc is offline  
Old August 7th, 2011, 02:45 PM   #4
Lifer
 
Whatsinaname181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Terra Firma
Posts: 2,987
still makes me cringe a bit, but heres the big dang question ive been asking myself since day one of thinking about the free floated firing pin issue-

WHY HAVENT WE INVENTED SPRING LOADED FIRING PINS FOR THE STONER PLATFORM AND THE M14 YET???

We sent guys to the moon and invented the silicone micro-processor already, why cant we aleviate the problem of slam-fires in these two service gas-guns? It looks like colt tried this already, but why hasent it stuck?

http://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/AR-FAQs/SlamFire3.htm


-K.

Whatsinaname181 is offline  
Old August 7th, 2011, 03:13 PM   #5
Platoon Commander
 
vanagonjon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Massachusetts, cradle of rebellion April 19, 1775. Cradle of insanity 2014.
Posts: 547
I have recently got into reloading for my M14 type rifles and have had no issues. I read almost everything I could get my hands on, and was properly paranoid about the details. Then I bought good equipment, proper cases, proper primers, proper powder amd projectiles, followed the recomended proceedures, rechecked everything, reloaded in small batches, took my time, etc. There were times when I was confused, and I stopped and found the answers. Many of the things I read I really didn't understand until I had reloaded quite a few rounds. I have good success with about a thousand rounds loaded as of now, but took the whole process VERY seriously. The whole thing is easy, but the details make or break you.

John

Thanks from sac troop and MesaRifle
vanagonjon is offline  
Old August 8th, 2011, 01:40 PM   #6
Lifer
 
dozier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,925
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanagonjon View Post
I have recently got into reloading for my M14 type rifles and have had no issues. I read almost everything I could get my hands on, and was properly paranoid about the details. Then I bought good equipment, proper cases, proper primers, proper powder amd projectiles, followed the recomended proceedures, rechecked everything, reloaded in small batches, took my time, etc. There were times when I was confused, and I stopped and found the answers. Many of the things I read I really didn't understand until I had reloaded quite a few rounds. I have good success with about a thousand rounds loaded as of now, but took the whole process VERY seriously. The whole thing is easy, but the details make or break you.

John

+1 on your post above, John. If the OP is really able to pay attention to the details, he will be fine reloading. The problem is that some people think reloading is a simple matter of throwing any combination of brass/primer/powder/and bullet together, and it will work safely. It's those people's blown up rifles you see pictured in the articles. Some of my equipment was purchased from a guy like that. At a minimum, by buying his equipment I probably saved his eyesight. He was truely, an accident waiting to happen. Before jumping into reloading, and buying equipment, I bought and read thru three reloading manuals. I made sure that I understood everything in them. If there was a question, I'd get on the forum here for advice. I can see why most rifle manufacturers will not warranty shooting reloads, as some people just will not put out the effort/money to do it properly. dozier

dozier is offline  
Old August 8th, 2011, 01:47 PM   #7
Rifleman
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 44
Exclamation High primer= out of battery

OR THE BIG BANG EXPLAINED. Set your primers 0.003" below the face of the case head-- or learn to play like Ray Charles; it is just that simple. A firing pin can not hit a low primer if the loaded round is fully chambered -translation if the case is trimmed and the LOA is correct. Only been at this for about 25K rounds as I also shoot belt fed.

Laus Deo
overbore

overbore is offline  
Old August 8th, 2011, 03:29 PM   #8
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 2,941
The design of the bolt/firing pin/receiver should eliminate a slam fire if the ammo is right. There is a reason for the regular and scheduled inspections by trained and qualified amorers - to find wear/tear and damage and correct it before problems come up.

Inspection, repeated inspection is a necessary part of reloading. Learn what/how to do it and make it a habit and you'll do alright (follow the reloading manuals recommended loads as well).

I inspect

the cases after I run them through the polisher
the cases after I resize them
the cases when I prime them (case and primer position in the feedpocket)
I put the powder in and inspect again to make sure the powder levels in all the cases looks similar (flashlight shone at an angle down into the case mouth) and any that look odd/different are pulled out of the tray and the powder weighed and corrections made before it goes back in the case
after I put the bullets in I inspect them again to make sure they are the same length (especially with lead bullets as sometimes a wad of wax/bullet lube will build up in the die after lots of bullets are seated - then I pull the seating stem out and clean the build up out)

I've had more holes blow through factory loaded cases than my reloads.

I've had more duds with factory ammo than with my reloads (never a single dud reload in all these years).

Make inspections a habit, don't exceed recommended loads (I've found out the most accurate loads are almots always somewhere below maximum velocity anyway). Keep a reloading logbook to refer back to listing the components/amounts of your reloads. Don't let other people or anything else going on distract you while reloading.

Follow the rules, pay attention to what you are doing, and your reloads can be more accurate than any factory load you can buy.

Thanks from sac troop and MesaRifle
M1A's r BEST is offline  
Old August 8th, 2011, 03:34 PM   #9
Platoon Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 420
Which manufacturer encourages Reloads? Lyman, Knight, Pedersoli, Shiloh, Pietta, and every other Black Powder gun manufacturer.

Primer depth is no guarantee of no slamfires unless it is extraordinarily deep. I check each round I load (Yes, All of them) and some with Federal 210 primers still doubled in the M1 Garand.

Improperly used, a Sizing die CAN still create an overly large round:
When a sizing die first squeezes down a case, it lengthens it and increases the headspace. If this is stopped before the die has a chance to bump the shoulder back, the headspace is even longer than when it came out of the gun.

Squeezing down the case TOO much also invites problems with creating an excessive headspace problem when the gun is in spec.

- Ivan.

Thanks from davecampperry
Ivan1GFP is offline  
Old August 8th, 2011, 03:42 PM   #10
Lifer
 
davecampperry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: OKLAHOMA
Posts: 2,328
The mere fact that a Kaboom is cause for excitement tells me it is rare. If Kaboom was an everyday occurence, our 'congress' would declare reloading to be 'hazardous to the children' in their childish and perverted minds. Yes, they are trying to do so, but they can't get traction because of the rarity. Let's all take another look at our procedures, help prevent these incidents, and remember Big Brother is watching.

davecampperry is offline  
Old August 8th, 2011, 06:06 PM   #11
Old Salt
 
charlie98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 1,754
I'm very confident of my skill when I go out and get into my pickup or on the motorcycle... but it is possible I will be killed by the time I get to the end of my street. Heck, I've jumped out of airplanes with a parachute someone else packed! I make mistakes, other people make mistakes and mechanical parts fail.

That being said, I'm very confident of my reloading technique and take reasonable safeguards and measures to ensure I'm producing safe ammunition for my rifles and pistols. Will I ever have a kaboom? I don't intend to, but I'm not going to quiver in fear at the back of the closet with the potential of it happening.

charlie98 is offline  
Old August 8th, 2011, 06:15 PM   #12
Lifer
 
TheTinMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,911
What percentage of KABOOMs turn out to be the result of reloads on a progressive press?

I'm sure that millions of rounds are safely produced on progressive presses, but almost every KABOOM I've read about eventually traced back to high-production reloading. Before the blue army from Dillon jumps me, I know that most guys are very careful all the time. Unfortunately, it only takes one careless guy or one distracted moment to make a bad round and it seems easier to make a mistake with a progressive press.

John's words are worth repeating:
Quote:
I have recently got into reloading for my M14 type rifles and have had no issues. I read almost everything I could get my hands on, and was properly paranoid about the details. Then I bought good equipment, proper cases, proper primers, proper powder amd projectiles, followed the recomended proceedures, rechecked everything, reloaded in small batches, took my time, etc. There were times when I was confused, and I stopped and found the answers. Many of the things I read I really didn't understand until I had reloaded quite a few rounds. I have good success with about a thousand rounds loaded as of now, but took the whole process VERY seriously. The whole thing is easy, but the details make or break you.

John
I started out with a Wilson case gauge, but am happier now with the Hornady headspace gauge and their "bullet comparator" (for overall length). Get the little "anvil" thing if you get any of the Hornady gauges - I don't know why they don't advertize the little beastie but it makes my measurements MUCH more consistent.

My reloading mentor uses a progressive press. However, he sizes in single-stage mode and primes by hand. He also weighs every single completed cartridge just in case there's a double (unlikely in .308) or a squib, looking for variances of over a grain or so.

FWIW I just started using a turret press for pistol rounds, but will always prime by hand so I can check every single primer's depth and then load powder in a tray, allowing a double check like M1As r Best does.

TheTinMan is offline  
Old August 8th, 2011, 06:25 PM   #13
Old Salt
 
RandyB45's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 1,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsinaname181 View Post
still makes me cringe a bit, but heres the big dang question ive been asking myself since day one of thinking about the free floated firing pin issue-

WHY HAVENT WE INVENTED SPRING LOADED FIRING PINS FOR THE STONER PLATFORM AND THE M14 YET???

We sent guys to the moon and invented the silicone micro-processor already, why cant we aleviate the problem of slam-fires in these two service gas-guns? It looks like colt tried this already, but why hasent it stuck?

http://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/AR-FAQs/SlamFire3.htm


-K.
Probably because it isn't necessary. I've seen one "slam fire", and that was during loading. Turns out a horizontal selector on an M4 doesn't necessarily mean Safe....

RandyB45 is offline  
Old August 8th, 2011, 06:56 PM   #14
Lifer
 
Whatsinaname181's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Terra Firma
Posts: 2,987
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB45 View Post
Probably because it isn't necessary. I've seen one "slam fire", and that was during loading. Turns out a horizontal selector on an M4 doesn't necessarily mean Safe....
As an experiment I used the same M855 62gr FMJ round in the top of my magazine for a month of patrols. That primer dent sure was getting deep every time I cleared my weapon, but it never detonated. I ended up throwing it at someone at a high rate of speed I believe, and it went off without a hitch.

Its the KB factor thats got me concerned. I mean, they make it seem that even if you resize correctly, seat the correct primer deep enough and do everything else right, your bolt is still going to end up looking like a spark plug in your barrel extention.

Whatsinaname181 is offline  
Old August 8th, 2011, 07:02 PM   #15
Old Salt
 
RandyB45's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 1,907
I wasn't able to keep one around long enough to find out! I sure miss my rich Uncle and all the free ammo and opportunities he provided.

RandyB45 is offline  
Reply

  M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Accuracy



Search tags for this page
best reloading powder for gas guns
,
do guns run off of gun powder or gas
,

gas gun reloading

,
hand loads for gas guns
,

loading for gas guns

,
powder for a gas gun
,
precision gas gun
,

reloading for gas guns

,
reloading for gas guns part 2 february 2014 guns & ammo magazine part 2 feb. 2014
,
reloading for gas guns simpson
,
sierra loading for gas guns
,
sierra reloading for gas guns
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Moderator Tools
Display Modes


Similar M14 Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How does one become a gunsmith? Gus Fisher Gus Fisher 46 February 17th, 2012 11:00 PM
Obama Pushing Treaty To Ban Reloading partssman Gun Rights 22 May 4th, 2009 09:26 PM
Reloading questions JacsLX Ammunition 13 April 9th, 2008 05:27 PM
reloading manual for gas guns Lruss Ammunition 6 December 4th, 2007 09:24 PM



Top Gun Sites Top Sites List